Simply ‘Ellen’s’ name remains a mystery, indeed there seems to be zero-that entitled Ellen otherwise Helen, but possibly a keen ‘Eleanor’ into the Joanna’s front side (Eleanor out of Aquitaine, mother away from Joanna’s father Queen John)
Hey, group. It’s really fascinating; the thing i won’t has actually supplied to have access to this post twenty-five years before whenever i try evaluating and composing Here Feel Dragons!
An important kuinka Burma-naiset eroavat amerikkalaisista naisista intent behind that it workout is to test, of the a peek at genealogist’s opinions about them and by contacting certain recognized modern sources, to determine who was simply the caretaker away from Gwladus Ddu ferch Llywelyn. Are she Joanna, partner out-of Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth (Joan Plantagenet: Created circa.1188, died. March 1237) otherwise are she Tangwystl ferch Llyarch out-of Rhos, domme out of Llywelyn, produced circa. 1168, passed away??
I shall stick to this which have a secondary analysis into the you can life regarding an excellent ded Susanna, considering out over King Henry 111 just like the a good hostage into the 1228 along with her child custody being offered so you’re able to Sir Nicholas Verdun and his awesome wife Clementia.
The latest feedback of the Genealogists that we has studied are only that, feedback, and additionally they disagree significantly. No certain facts can be obtained in any event, but have to state that most hold getting Gwladus to get the fresh child off Joanna. This is particularly true of your genealogists of one’s descendants out of the De- Braose friends, nonetheless they ily to get tied to both the Welsh and you will English regal homes!
The ensuing list of Llywelyn’s numerous genuine and you may illegitimate people seems becoming fundamentally acknowledged from the most of the genealogists that i keeps read except for distinctions over whether or not number 9 very stayed. The latest schedules off birth given below are debated because of the particular:
- Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, born circa.1199, died 1244
- Gwladys Ddu ferch Llywelyn, created circa.1206, passed away 1251
- Ellen (Helen, Elen) ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1206? died circa 1253,
- Margred (Margaret) ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1208? passed away circa 1263,
- Dafydd ap Llywelyn, Prince away from Wales, produced circa 1208 (1211?) (doubts regarding it day, pick later), passed away twenty-five February 1246,
- Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1209 died 1281.
- Angharad ferch Llywelyn, produced circa 1210, died 1257
- Tegwared ap Llywelyn – created circa 1210, possible dual so you’re able to Angharad?
- ‘Helen’, otherwise ‘Susanna’, born circa 1214? Passed away 1259?
There can be far argument along side identity of one’s parents out-of this type of students. Discover general arrangement your merely particular college students from Llywelyn’s elizabeth Prince of Wales and you will Ellen (Helen) who hitched (1) John the newest Scot, young man of the earl off Chester and (2) Robert de- Quincy. Even though view is split along the moms and dads out-of Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and Susanna, a lot of genealogists We have read slim toward the mom getting Joanna.
That is partially along with their going times of delivery due to the fact really as their marriages to several marcher lords just who, one supposes, would have sought for to fall into line their houses to this of their neighbor, the newest Prince from North Wales with his partner, the latest queen of England’s child. It’s thought that these types of lords of your February wouldn’t have seen really appeal otherwise political desire when you look at the marrying out-of its sons towards illegitimate daughters out-of a Welsh prince with good Welsh woman.
As to the brands of them people, whether or not from the Joanna, Tangwystl otherwise anyone else, they were all the entitled immediately after people in Llywelyn’s family unit members:
Ken, we have been completely on your own debt
Llywelyn’s mother try entitled ‘ed ‘Susanna’ out-of Gwynedd. His paternal grandma are called ‘Gwladus’. The parents from their grandmother Susanna, had been ‘Gruffudd’ ap Cynan and you may ‘Angharad’ out-of Flint and you will both the brands received so you can Llywelyn’s people. It Susanna and additionally got a sibling named ‘Gwenllian’, a comparable term while the Llywelyn’s great-grandmother.
